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The tragic crime in Srebrenica should not be minimized, but what happened there was not genocide, says Efraim Zuroff.
- he UN Security Council was unable last week to pass a resolution claiming that Srebrenica was genocide. That is a binding decision and UN members must oblige. The Un has never said that Srebrenica was genocide.
The International Crminal Court (not affiliated with the United Nations) determined that it was genocide in 2004. The problem there is that in 2004 less than 50% of the world's population had even ratified support of the ICC.
Even today only 54% have ratified theICC.
The ICC is not the "international community." it is one voice in the international community, but not the sole voice.
This is a fallacy perpetrated by those who want common people to believe that the "international community" has spoken.
(factman, 17 July 2015 03:25)
factman,
You are using your argument selectively. If the vote at the UN was conducted without there being a veto allowed at the UNSC and only a simple majority decided, the vote would have gone to verify that Srebrenica was, in fact, a Genocide. After all, if 54% of the World recognizes the ICC, the same 54% of the UN would recognize the ICC, therefore, agreeing with the ICC that Srebrenica was, of course, a Genocide. I'm afraid, factman, you've been hoisted by your own petard. To be clear, the ICC does represent the International Community and it has, indeed, spoken. Keep in mind, a country would not recognize the ICC if it did not agree with its decisions, regardless of when those decisions were made.
(Marko K., 18 July 2015 17:02)
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- "its one thing to counter some yahoo on the forum, but to actually counter someone who by all rights is superior to you in every visible way you really come of more of a boob than a bob.(not-bob, 16 July 2015 21:02) "
Thanks not-boob. You're just too funny. NOT.
(Bob, 17 July 2015 18:20)
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- Bob should define what "international bodies" means?
The UN Security Council was unable last week to pass a resolution claiming that Srebrenica was genocide. That is a binding decision and UN members must oblige. The Un has never said that Srebrenica was genocide.
The International Crminal Court (not affiliated with the United Nations) determined that it was genocide in 2004. The problem there is that in 2004 less than 50% of the world's population had even ratified support of the ICC.
Even today only 54% have ratified (the big hold outs being: USA, Russia, China, Japan, Israel).
The ICC is not the "international community." it is one voice in the international community, but not the sole voice nor can it even claim support of 60% of the nations of the world nor 55% of the population of the world. Nor even the superpowers of the world.
This is a fallacy perpetrated by those who want common people to believe that the "international community" has spoken.
(factman, 17 July 2015 03:25)
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- Courts are not as concerned with the truth as they are with the law. And so courts are much easier to corrupt in matters of history than historians. The question of whether Srebrenica was genocide is a matter left to history, not law. And the historians are saying Srebrenica was not genocide. Rather obviously, it was not. Not only that, but everyone says that it was a war crime, but the fact here is that despite everyone repeating this, nobody is repeating what exactly the war crime was.
Another odd thing here, the Sajmiste camp was a source of genocide for the Jews and Romani, but not the Serbs. The Nazis were not interested in exterminating the Serbs. That was the interest of the Catholic Croatians, whose genocide against the Serbs was spiritually motivated and had nothing to do with the bogus racial theories covering up the basic antisemitism of the Nazi cult.
For the Nazis, the slavs were not "Aryan", but not vermin, fit only for slavery. Serbs suffered in Sajmiste, but were not subject to extermination. Where Croatians ran the concentration camps, they were.
(Paul, 16 July 2015 23:27)
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- From Bob: "Strange that Mr. Zuroff claims Srebrenica was not genocide when international bodies legally find the atrocities committed there amount to genocide. I guess he's not familiar with international bodies and courts."
Mr. Zuroff is the foremost authority on the Holocaust and has spent much of his professional life tracking WWII war criminals. My guess is that he would run circles around you on matters concerning international courts. By the way, what are your credentials, Bob????
More from Bob: "Mr. Zuroff states in the same sentence "genocide against Jewish and Serbian people". When was there ever a Serbian genocide? Only when talking to right wing and nationalist Serbs I suppose will you hear this kind of nonsense.
Let me enlighten you Bob. Serbs were killed en masse during the last Independent State of Croatia. And if you think only right wing nationalistic Serbs believe this, add these books to your reading list: Vatican's Holocaust by Avro Manhattan, Unholy Trinity by Loftus and Aarons and The Rape of Serbia by Michael Lees. Last I checked, none of these authors are Serb nationalists.
From Bob: "This guy should keep out of matters he obviously knows nothing about."
Maybe you should take your own advice, Bob.
(njegos, 16 July 2015 21:11)
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- bob, is that actually the best you can do. you actually think that Zuroff is a know-nothing on this topic? you actually think that the man who is the director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, who is the coordinator of Nazi war crimes research worldwide, who is the author of its annual "Status Report" on the worldwide investigation and prosecution of Nazi war criminals is not up to the same level as "bob" the great is.
ignorance is not a problem, but proudly displaying one's is.
funny how a simple google search reveals that indeed there was what should be considered a genocide against serbs in ww2 at the hands of both croatia and kosovars. however a simply google search of bob did not lead me to a grand internationally celebrated historian.
its one thing to counter some yahoo on the forum, but to actually counter someone who by all rights is superior to you in every visible way you really come of more of a boob than a bob.
(not-bob, 16 July 2015 21:02)
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- Strange that Mr. Zuroff claims Srebrenica was not genocide when international bodies legally find the atrocities committed there amount to genocide. I guess he's not familiar with international bodies and courts.
Mr. Zuroff states in the same sentence "genocide against Jewish and Serbian people". When was there ever a Serbian genocide? Only when talking to right wing and nationalist Serbs I suppose will you hear this kind of nonsense.
And if he uses the same logic that Srebrenica wasn't genocide, it disputes his argument of a genocide against Serbs.
This guy should keep out of matters he obviously knows nothing about.
(Bob, 16 July 2015 18:10)
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- Of course, only jews suffered genocide and when serbs are anti-muslim they become genocide victims, but when they do photo ops with Saddam than they are fascist chetniks.
(memememe, 16 July 2015 16:16)
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- Of course.
Nothing different from what has been said here all along.
And this time confirmed by Simon Wisenthal. I guess some will say that they're ignorant about genocide and all its political implications and hypocrocies?
Perhaps icj1 will have something to add? Icj1 insists that the international community speaks through the ICC. Yet 50% of the world today does not even recognize the jurisdiction of the ICC and even less did when the ruling was made.
The UN Security Council represents the international community, not the ICC. The UNSC council spoke last week. The vote is binding.
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